The Warrior's Way ® - Desiderata Institute: Forum Posts

11-Taking Action

Hi Laur. Thanks for your comments. Believe me, it is amazing that many in the world can speak and understand more languages than just one, which is most American's limited ability. You have a great skill to be open to new information, that is expressed in a foreign language, and integrate it into your situation in Romania. So, I salute you and your efforts to do this.

The main point of this lesson is that you focus attention differently when preparing than when taking action. Sounds like you are focusing attention well when engaged and taking action--with what your body is doing. I just wanted to emphasize that you truly understood this difference and the power of your witnessing ability.

Thanks, Arno

11-Taking Action

Hi Arno,

I didn't paraphrase anything in my comment. I was just describing how I felt during the five days of climbing on multipitch routes in a new area, during my Easter holiday. However, I admit that some ideeas from my lectures might apear here and there (maybe from the latest book that I red, Quantum Psychology - Stephen Wolinsky ?!).

Yes, now I understand what "focusing our attention on what our body is actually doing" means. My confusion was due to some linguistic subtleties: the semantic differencies between focus and concentration. In Romanian they both translate the same, but in this particular case, it seems that concentration reffers to the mind and focus is related to the "superior self".

I also might have misinterpreted your laser beam model: the conscious mind is in charge with processes 1-4 which are about collecting attentionand this led me to the ideea that attention is something you "think" about. Somehow I extended this to the other processes, beyond the transition phase. Now everything is crystal clear.

Thank you,

Laur

11-Taking Action

Hi Laur,
Your comment (paraphrased somewhat): I know that I look around for holds and I position my body so that I can use it optimally, but my technical skills come into play by themselves. Even when I need to be creative about a weird move, I just follow my eyes. I see the available holds and a movement schema develops by itself. I might focus attention on what my body is actually doing, but it doesn't feel like focusing. It feels more like witnessing what my body is doing.
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Ok. Attention will be somewhere, so let's figure out where it is. What you describe is attention, not focused in your head 'thinking,' but focused out in the situation 'doing.' You describe it as just witnessing because no thinking is going on. And, this is the state you need to attain. If your mind is thinking about what to do then attention is partly in your head thinking about the future. This creates a split in your bodymind--body is in the present but mind is in the future. To have body and mind as an integrated whole--working together--the mind needs to simply, passively observe. This allows the witnessing ability to come through your mind without being impeded by beliefs, fears, or false perceptions.
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So, when you follow your eyes, keep breathing, keep moving, stay relaxed...your attention is engaged in those actions and not engaged in thinking. You are witnessing everything simply because no thinking is going on. Now, there is probably some subtle thinking going on at least at times but as you practice engaging the body fully and keeping attention on that engagement even those subtle thoughts will diminish.
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Does this help you understand what I said: "In order to stay focused while climbing we need to focus our attention on what our body is actually doing."?
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Arno

11-Taking Action

Hi Arno,

"what do you focus your attention on in order to stay focused?"

Now, this is a hard one... I've been thinking for two days since I've returned from my last climbing trip and I still don't have an answer.

After breaking into action, I'm on automatic pilot, my mind is quiet and I'm just climbing. I don't do any conscious effort to focus on a particular aspect and I don't witness any thoughts (because I don't have any), so it's difficult to realize what I'm focusing on.

I know that I look around for holds and I position my body so that I can use them optimally, but my technical skills come into play by themselves. Even when I need to be creative about a whired move, I just follow my eyes: I see the available holds and a movement schema develops by itself.

I feel that I'm climbing within my own bubble of space which surrounds me on a 10 ft radius, I'm aware of everything inside it, but I couldn't say that I'm actually focusing on something.

You said "In order to stay focused while climbing we need to focus our attention on what our body is actually doing."

I might do so, but I don't feel like focusing, I feel more like witnessing what my body is doing. Maybe I still need to work on becoming conscious ?!

Laur

11-Taking Action

Your comment: "It was a no-fall situation. I took the time to relax my mind and slow my breathing, then concentrated only on what I wanted to do, and not on the fall potential."
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Hi Sam, thanks for your post. some clarifications...
1. What did you specifically do to relax your mind? Or, what did you do that resulted in your mind becoming relaxed?
2. What did you actually do when you "concentrated only on what I wanted to do?" In other words, what was it that you "wanted to do" and what did you do to accomplish this?
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Arno

11-Taking Action

Hi Arno - I recently did a climb where I had to walk a narrow catwalk with lots of exposure in windy conditions. It was a no-fall situation, but the catwalk was doable, and I took the time to relax my mind and slow my breathing, then concentrated only on what I wanted to do, and not on the fall potential. It worked quite well, but definitely takes practice.

11-Taking Action

Introduction
Much of what we have discussed so far in the lessons has been about preparation and transition--what our mind does to focus attention in these two phase of risk-taking. Focusing attention on the elements of the situation can help us develop a clear understanding of what kind of situation we are getting ourselves into.
Specifically:
1. Identifying where the risk will end--the next decision point--(the top, next pro/rest)
2. Clarifying the consequence, namely falling--DAO (Distance, Angle, Obstacles)
3. Creating our plan of action--POLR (Path Of Least Resistance)
4. Clarifying whether it is a yes-fall and no-fall zone
5. Determining if the risk is appropriate
6. Understanding where our motivation comes from and grounding it in valuing learning
7. Being decisive by allowing only two outcomes and accepting both
8. How to attain a heightened state of arousal
9. How to keep our commitment consistent
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Essentially, you have choosen to focus your attention, with your mind, to collect this information in order to be as well prepared as possible for the up-coming risk.
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Specific Topic of Discussion
Now, it is time for taking action--to do and act out what you have prepared for. Now you are leaving that stance where you were stopped, doing this preparation. You've transitioned by leaving behind preparation and beginning action. This transition, where you set your intention, is a definitive break between how you focus attention when preparing and how you focus attention when taking action.
So, how do you stay focused when actually climbing? In other words, what do you focus your attention on in order to stay focused?
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Exercise
Go to some climbs or just remember climbs you've done and list anything that come to you about your process of focusing attention when in the action of climbing.
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Arno

Any Training in the North East

Hello Everyone,

I will be in the NE in Sept (6-7) for the Sterling Goddesses of the Rocks event in North Conway. I intend to set up seminars at gyms around the NE before and after these dates. If you know a gym that would be interested in hosting me, please let me know.

Thanks, Arno

Any Training in the North East

That makes more from New Hampshire/Vermont!

Wondering Mind

Hi Mike,
Thanks for your post.
Your question: So my question would be is there anything I can do to keep my mind sharp for Sport and Trad?
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The diminished skills you describ seem more physical rather than mental. How to do specific sport skills, like foot placements or finding handholds for example, are physical...framed around the physical aspects of what makes sport climbs what they are. I think that in order to maintain a level of familarity with these skills you need to do them on a regular basis. A splitter crack is just so different in how you use your hands and feet than a overhanging jug climb or crimpy vertical route. However, there could be some similarities.
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1. Eye Contact: Generally, when we climb we look up for handholds and then look down for footholds. Many climbers allow their eyes to shift away before those holds are fully grabbed or stepped on. You could practice keeping eye contact with the placement of a foot (for example) until your foot has engaged. Attention goes where your eyes are looking and if you look away too quickly, before the task has been completed, then you won't place your foot well and therefore feel it isn't in a position solid enough to trust.
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2. Soft eyes focus: When you look, soften your gaze. When you look down for footholds, take in the whole field of view instead of just one particular spot. This is basically how the process works:
Your mind wants a foothold quickly and so it converges your attention focus onto whatever it has deemed best. Many times this is due to what is "best" right now and not for putting several moves together.
You can relax your focus to deal with this mind tendency. I call this a soft-eyes focus or prepheral focus, kinda like what a football quarterback uses. Spread out your attention to see everything that is below you. With more to consider you'll have all the info, so to speak, for placing your foot.
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3. Follow your eyes: Practice this. Go to a moderate climb, on toprope, and grab/step on the first hold your eyes direct you to. Follow through with this. This is a representation of body knowledge. Next, climb faster than you usually climb. Doing this will also force you to trust your body's direction for finding foot/hand holds instead of your mind.
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So, perhaps what you describe can be a bit mental and getting better at these three skills in both trad and sport will blend from one to the other.
Enjoy your practice.
Arno

Wondering Mind

I went out climbing sport today after climbing cracks for a few months and could not get up the sport routs that I could do in February. Everything seemed out of sink foot placement was way off and finding handholds was not as easy. I was not worried about where the next clip was or anything my mind was on the climbing but everything else seamed off. So my question would be is there anything I can do to keep my mind sharp for Sport and Trad? I still had a great day and enjoyed the views, the rock, and livening it up with my buds. I was just wondering why everything was out of line? Mike

10-Commitment

Hi Laur,
Thank you for your post. Very nice example of many mental things going on when climbing.
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You said: I just couldn't find any usable hold and my mind was telling me to let go and take the fall. (However, I didn't think to downclimb to the bolt)
--Yes, always important to know that downclimbing is always an option. Actually it is not an outcome but rather a climbing option. You can probe a section and return to a rest.
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You said: feeling good because I was able to stick with the outcomes I allowed myself, because I was able to keep myself in the present while climbing and because of the continous route discovery, which boosted my motivation.
--Motivation will come from achieving end results, like making it to the top of the climb, and from learning. Make sure that the growth you feel inside comes from knowing you applied specific mental skills--being the witness to let go of doubts; allowing only two outcomes--and let that motivate you.
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Self confidence comes from inner growth. It is confidence in the skills you have learned, just what happened in your climb example. Let that be your reference for motivation. Getting to the top feel great also but it is more a testiment of your ability to apply certain skills.
Nice...
Arno

10-Commitment

Hi Arno,
A route that I climbed on Sunday got me thinking about outcomes/expectation/motivation.

A friend of mine told me about this long (120 ft) and challanging route that he had climbed few weeks ago. When I went at this cliff, I was just looking for such a route, in order to assess the effects of my strenght-endurance training, so I chose to climb this one.

As usually, I allowed only two outcomes: climbing or falling.
Expectations: I knew nothing about the route and I couldn't see too much of it from the ground, so I started climbing with "a curious mind" as you say in your last message. However, I was confident that the route was possible, because it was climbed before, but I didn't know how it was rated. As a retreat plan, I knew that I could rappel down from any bolt.

About 20 ft after the first crux (an overhanging crack obliquing right, which was visible from the ground, so I had a good plan on how to climb it) I found myself stucked on a vertical slab, 3 ft above the last bolt. I just couldn't find any usable hold and my mind was telling me to let go and take the fall. (However, I didn't think to downclimb to the bolt)

Aparently this was within my accepted outcomes, but I realized that quitting is different from falling in action: it was just a subtle misinterpretation of the falling outcome. So, I told to myself: "Laur, if you fall, fall while climbing, not as a quitter. This is not an outcome you allowed yourself. Keep looking for a solution to the problem. It's there, but you didn't find it yet !". I noticed a way to smear my left foot and a little two finger jug to keep me ballanced and I passed the section.

The last third of the route was hidden by an arrete. I traversed left over it and found myself on a vertical slab with an overhang on top of it. When I reached the overhanging section I was pretty pumped, because the route was very sustained and it didn't offer stances for a good rest. I clipped a bolt and assessed the overhang and my skills and strenght reserves. My forearms were on fire and I was doubting that my fingers will still grip the holds. The bolt was just in front of my eyes and my mind was yelling "Grab it !"

I had to make a conscious effort to remind me of the two outcomes that I allowed for the climb. As a result, I adjusted my position (lifted the hips and streightened my arms) while repeting like a mantra "relax and climb on !" I changed my hands on a sidepull and reached leftwards over the lip, where I found a sloper with a little edge that I could crimp on. I was feeling my fingers unbending, but I made the move over the lip, determined to climb over or to fall in action. Somehow I found some strenght, I ignored the pain in my forearms and I made it over the lip.

After a mantle move, I was on top of the cliff, feeling good because I was able to stick with the outcomes I allowed myself, because I was able to keep myself in the present while climbing and because of the continous route discovery, which boosted my motivation. I also knew that I learned another lesson about the commitment I'm able of.

Thank you for your advice,

Laurentiu

Getting Unstuck?

Hi Andrea,
OK. When you are at a rest/stance look at the next section not so much as specific moves but rather where the features are and the flow of the route. Where is the path of least resistance (POLR) that will lead you from your stance to the next one?
Next, sounds like attention is staying in your head. Focus attention on BERP (breathing, soft eye gaze, relax down by lowering heels/loosen grip, and roll shoulders slightly back/down). You can BERP in one breath. Take a deep breath and while doing a strong exhale, shake your face (or at least blink your eyes a few times) and relax down onto your feet. Doing this will get attention back to your body.
Now, commit to engaging your body (breathe/move) through POLR.
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Arno

10-Commitment

Hi Jean-Michel,
OUTCOME:
Your say: "thus i was expecting to on-sight them"
Does this mean you gave yourself only two possible outcomes, climbing it or falling? What outcome happened when you were at that point between falling off and not climbing up anymore? In other words, did you say "take" or did your mind decide you couldn't continue and you simply let go?
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EXPECTATIONS:
Can you remember what expectations you had about the crux before you got on the route? What about when you were right below it?
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MOTIVATION:
Yes, looks like there was some ego (end-result) motivation, perhaps a lot. Just having fun with your friends is a kind of love-based motivation. But, really the love-based motivation is more learning based. In other words, you are motivated by what you can learn and what you are learning from the experience. What can you do to change your motivation to more learning-based motivation? What exactly made you fall or let go and what can you find exciting about that?
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TRANSITION:
Please don't apologize for your English. Your English is 100 times better than my French. Ok, consider making some changes. Here are my suggestions:
1. Success is not getting to the top
2. Failure is not falling
3. The climb is not your foe; it is your teacher. Find out what it has to teach you. Let that motivate you.
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Thank you for your post.
Arno

10-Commitment

Hi Laur,
Outcomes:
OK, allowing only two outcomes focuses your effort more deliberately, so nice application on those two routes. Many climbers give themselves many outcomes (if it gets too strenuous I can say "take", etc).
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Expectations:
Your comment below
For the first route:
Before: "the climb is not very challanging" (except the crux, which motivates me) and it will be easy to climb.
While climbing: "Nice moves, I expect the route to continue this way all the way to the top".
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Before: It sounds like you are setting up expectations that could interfere with your climbing process. Consider this: what happens when the climb is challenging? Your expectation of "not very challenging" could cause you to lose focus if you encounter another crux you didn't see from below or if the actual crux you did see turns out to be very different than you perceived before.
During: What happens if those "nice moves" become not so nice?
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Essentially my point is this: The climb will always be somewhat different than our mind's perception beforehand. when we make expectations before or during a climb we strengthen those perceptions our mind created. Anytime there is a difference it takes time to readjust our focus. Consider just going into the climbing with a curious mind and what skills you will apply on it.
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Motivation:
Nice awareness you gained from the second climb. Sometimes you do need to TR a climb or back off. Don't see that as a failure. You learned something.
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Thanks,
Arno

Getting Unstuck?

So, I'm climbing along and then perhaps the crux shows up. I get scared. Shut down. I can't really see the moves and although I am looking around...I feel blinded to what is next. Sometimes I think I know what the moves might be and am too afraid to commit. I stay in this place of fear, unsureness, insecurity...and then most often, I make the move and carry on. I can't put a finger on what it is that finally brings me back to the movement. I do realize,though, that the fear of comitting to the move felt like much harder than the move itself. Any advice on just leaving out that step of "being stuck"?

10-Commitment

Hi Arno,

my last session at the gym have been quite challenging for my Ego and i'm having a tough time trying to learn the lesson from it. I improved a lot in the last 2 months with your help going from 6a to 6c-7a. I was climbing with a less experienced friend so we did mostly 6a ways.

OUTCOME: thus i was expecting to on-sight them, but being open to the eventuality that a move a had never seen before might challenge me and make me fall. I really was there to climb the esthtics ways of this gym and have fun with my friends, not trying to perform of improve.

EXPECTATIONS: As a expected, i went through the first few ways quite fast and impeccably. Then i saw that 6a+ which i could't read very well from the floor. It seemed to have exotic moves so i was really excited to see something new, hoping to learn and confident i could improvise throughout it all. But i got stuck after a very few moves. I had to go far left from the way to do the exotic move with legs and arms crossed, then i had to let myself balance to the right and at the right time jump for the next (tiny) hold. I guess i was afraid to fall because i would balance and hit the opposite wall. So for a few minutes i gave it half-hearted tries and overgripped and didn't succeed. I was really pissed. That's when my friends gathered around starting to give me contradictory advices. At that time, i really got angry and i wanted to be over with this crux and do the rest which didn't seem easier but where i could rely more on my physical strength and rage myself to the top, which i finally did.

MOTIVATION: When i reached the top, i was so disappointed. I knew i didn't climb like a warrior. My friends saw me struggle, rage and fail in an easy way. I never want to get into the "it's-not-rated-properly" argument because since I'm very tall, ways are always a different challenge for me than for my friends. Then i really saw that i had egoic motivations. I'm the best climber in my group, therefore i should show off in a 6a... And my other motivations (climbing beautiful ways and have fun with friends) really were not giving me a high degree of commitment.

TRANSITION: Now i can't wait to give it a second try with the motivation of beating this foe. It is possible that i fail again but I'll learn more this time and at somepoint soon i should redpoint it. I found my experience humbling, but being the leader of the group makes it hard not to care about what other might think. After reflexion i think i have both egoic and warrior's motivations. But i learned also that even reaching the top when you climb to show off can have catastrophic results !

P.S. Sorry if i use strange expressions. French is my first language. But I guess you've noticed since i quote my ways with 6a, b, c and not 5.10, 5.11, etc.

10-Commitment

Hi Arno,

First--Outcomes
How many outcomes to you allow yourself. Some possible outcomes could be: falling, downclimbing, grabbing pro, hanging on pro, getting to the top, etc.

*Laur's comments:

Just two outcomes for both routes: climbing the route or falling (and climbing the whole route again, starting from the ground - I might be "old-school", but I rarely hangdog a route)

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Second--Expectations
What are your expectations prior to getting on the climb?
What are your expectations while on the climb (if different than prior to climbing)?
How do these expectations affect your effort? Do they help or hinder? Why?

*Laur's comments:

For the first route:
Before: "the climb is not very challanging" (except the crux, which motivates me) and it will be easy to climb.
While climbing: "Nice moves, I expect the route to continue this way all the way to the top".
As a result, I became more concentrated on the problem solving aspect and I enjoyed the moves even more.

For the second route: "I don't know what I'll encounter on the route and I might fall and land right on top of that tree". I avoided the possible risk: I TRed the route to make sure I don't have to deal with the "unknown". (Which in my oppinion is different from the warrior's choice of not engaging the risk)
After the TR, I could say that I had no more expectations before leading the route: I knew that I can climb the route and there were no objective risks. It was a kind of replay of the TR.

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Third--Motivation
How does reaching the top affect your motivation?
How does falling (and not reaching the top) affect your motivation?

*Laur's comments:

For the first route: falling was one of the two outcomes that I had accepted. On my second attempt I looked for better ways to climb and I was challanged by the crux moves without the broken critical hold. Reaching the top was just the end of a beautiful journey.

For the second route: by avoiding the unknown, I made sure that the climb is within my comfort zone. By doing so, I took out an important part of the challange and reaching the top meant near to nothing.

There are some excellent moves on the route, but dialing them on TR prior to the real climb turned them into gym-exercises. This is an important lesson for me, as this was not an expedition into the unknown, but a small step outside my comfort zone, that I should have taken.

Thank you,

Laur

10-Commitment

Hi Laur,
Thanks for your post. Now, go through your post and outline them in the structure I have below. Put only what is relevant to each section (outcomes, expectations, motivation). Arno
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First--Outcomes
How many outcomes to you allow yourself. Some possible outcomes could be: falling, downclimbing, grabbing pro, hanging on pro, getting to the top, etc.
*Laur's comments:

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Third--Motivation
How does reaching the top affect your motivation?
How does falling (and not reaching the top) affect your motivation?
*Laur's comments:

10-Commitment

This weekend I went to a limestone crag where I have bolted some routes last autumn, with the intention to redpoint some of the routes that I had only climbed on TR when looking for the best line to bolt. I wanted to get an estimate on the grades and to check if the routes are safe for beginners, as this is intended to be a climbing school area(the hardest of the nine routes is 5.11b).

So, I entered one of the routes expecting that it will be nice and easy (as it was under my usual onsight level) and I'll make it to the top on my first attempt, but that the crux section will be a bit challanging (which was motivating me). Well, on that section, a technical slab at the end of the route, while movind right from a high-step and a side pull, a little hand hold broke on me and I took a 15 ft fall, swing included ;o) (I guess my belayer wasn't expecting me to fall there and there was some slack in the rope).

I only had two more moves to clip the anchor, but althought I didn't make it to the top on the first attempt, I didn't react in anger. In fact, I was glad that the hold broke on me and not on an innocent beginner and I also was glad that my body reacted well during the fall: before I even realized that I was falling, I was running down backwards on the 80 degree slab tapping it with my hands. This was the kind of fall that used to scare me the most, so I did a lot of falling practice and I was glad that the results were showing.

I climbed the route on my second attempt expecting to refine some of the moves, to find a way to climb over the crux using another hold and to climb to the top, and so did I. This time I was motivated by the variety of the climb (a 60 degree friction slab, than an overhang on large pockets with a difficult step over the lip and an 80 degree slab up to the top with the crux in the end) and the beauty of the moves required to climb through.

Well, this attitude changed for the second route. After the first 20 feet there was a little ledge with a small tree on it and than there was an overhanging section right above the tree. As I was planning the climb from the ground I was thinking that if I will fall from the face above the overhang (where I expected the crux to be) it might be a slight possibility to land on top of the tree. This was not such a great danger, as the branches were very thin and the bolts were placed in order to preventing this incident, but my determination went away.

Instead of lead climbing the route I climbed the route nearby and placed a TR. After top roping the route, I was very angry with me for not leading the route in the first place: the fall was safe to take, the route was very nice and it had some great moves. I pulled down the TR and climbed the route, enjoying all the moves, but still being angry for the way I avoided the risk which was in fact safe to assume. I'm not even sure that the tree wasn't just an excuse I found for not engaging a route that I thought it will challange me.

Laurentiu

10-Commitment

Hi Carl,
Thanks for your post. Framing your comments in the structure I outlined we get this:
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OUTCOMES
There were two possible outcomes: climb as much as your expectations AND not climb that much.
Question:
1. Did you realize that both of these outcomes were possible before you engaged?
2. Did you accept both outcomes? Meaning, that you would be okay with either?
3. Do you see how NOT accepting both outcomes can interfere with your enjoyment (and commitment) while climbing?
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EXPECTATIONS
You say: expectations were to climb more then we did. We were satisfied; we were also a bit disappointed.
My comment: Your mind creates expectations that interfere with your enjoyment. Ask your mind a few questions:
1. Why do you want to climb more?
2. Why are you disappointed when you don't climb as much as your mind expects?
3. What part of you was satisfied and what part was disappointed?
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MOTIVATION
You say:
My motivation completely shifts from climbing for training or preparation to real enjoyment and sensation.
My comment: It seems you are going into "training/preparation" with the approach that it is less valuable and enjoyable than just climbing. This is common for climbers. You can enjoy practice (which is what training/preparation is) just as much as regular climbing. But, most climbers devalue practice. They see it as something they are supposed to do so they can accomplish something more important, like a redpoint or longer goal route. I suggest this: don't do anything because it is good for you. Do it because it gives you a feeling of being alive. Practice is still climbing. It just has a different intention.
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Now, a side note that probably also affects your motivation. You need to: Develop an appropriate relationship with your mind.
First, you mind doesn't like stress.
You say: I hate feeling like not wanting to climb, however, once I start climbing everything changes.
My comment: Before engagement your mind interferes by creating misleading perceptions; after engagement those perceptions are clarified. So, hold your mind's perceptions as suspect.
Second, your mind overvalues the end result (climbing more). Your mind will distract attention to the end goal. "It" doesn't know what to do and how could it. You are stopped at a stance. Only engagement will determine what your body will do. You say the hesitation goes away as you plan and climb again. What you are doing is redirecting attention away from limiting thinking that your mind does (I don't know what to do) to planning and climbing (what actually needs to happen to accomplish and help your mind "figure out what to do."
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BLAMING AND EXCUSES
You say: initial hesitancy to blame and I cover it up with excuses: someone else on the route, I’m tired, the weather not good.
My comment: Your mind will have this tendency. Just redirect attention to planning (if you are stopped, resting, and assessing) or climbing (if you are climbing between stances). But also, be honest with yourself. Are you really blaming and making excuses or are you being attentive to what is true about the situation? Is someone else on the route? How tired are you? What is the weather forecast? Your mind will always desire to pull you out of the stress. Be wary of that. But there are some things that you do need to be attentive to.
Clarify between thoughts and true concerns this way:
---Limiting thoughts come from the mind because the mind is motivated by comfort and end results. Determine if the thoughts are fears based on desiring comfort or not achieving the end goal.
---Empowering thoughts originate from our desire to be challenged and grow. It is a deeper motivation than the comfort motivation of our mind. Determine if the thoughts originate from a desire to understand the reality of the situation (how tired am I; how much more might I be able to do; how much clear weather do I have; is someone else on the route; how can I deal with that (climb around them or just stay behind them); how will either impact the weather forecast, amount of daylight, etc.
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Well...that's a lot of comments. Please post more comments or questions you may have.
Arno

10-Commitment

Hi Arno,

This week we chose some challenging climbs to prepare for summer climbing trips. Our expectations were to make the easier climbs with out incident to gain confidence climbing that level and top rope some harder climbs with no expectations. However, when we arrived at the bottom of the climbs I always feel a bit of hesitancy and I think my partner does also. The first question is "Who is going to climb". I hate feeling like not wanting to climb, however, once I start climbing everything changes. I begin to focus on the moves and the rock in front of me. My motivation completely shifts from climbing for training or preparation to real enjoyment and sensation. Sometimes during the climb the hesitancy returns momentarily usually at stationary comfortable stance or if I get to a point that I don’t know what to do. The hesitation goes away as I plan the next move and start climbing again.

Over all our expectations were to climb more then we did. We were satisfied with what we did accomplish and had fun climbing. We were also a bit disappointed that we didn’t do more. For me it’s my initial hesitancy to blame and I cover it up with excuses like there’s some else on the route, I’m tired, the weather not good, … . Once I make the commitment to start climbing my motivation shifts to enjoyment.

10-Commitment

Hi Laur,
Now, if you can and have time this week, go to a climb with the intention of onsighting or redpointing. And write down:
1. Outcomes you allow
2. Expectations you have and how your expectation changes (if at all) as you climb.
3. Motivations you have and how your motivation changes (if at all) as you climb.
-
Essentially, how do your expectations and motivations seem to effect your commitment.
Arno

10-Commitment

Hi Arno,

Lately, I've been training a lot for my next short-term goal: a rock trip in Vratsa-Bulgaria, during the Easter holliday, where I'll be climbing some long multi-pitch trad routes. It's also a step towards my medium-term goal of climbing some of my projects till the end of the climbing season. During the winter I went skiing, I did some ice-climbing, I also bolted some routes in a new climbing-school area, but I did no rock climbing at all, so the training has become quite necessary.

My training consists in 2 days a week of system training and intervals in the gym and rock-climbing in weekends. When I climb outdoor I want to get feed-back on my gym training: to assess the progress I made and to find what skills do I need to train further. So, at the crag I look for routes that will gradually challange my skills (and will also allow me to improve my technique and tactics, that I can't work in the gym), and I expect that I will discover some weaknesses to work on.

So, the outcomes are climbing each challanging section up to the next rest stance or falling. If I manage to climb the section in good technique and giving all my skills to the effort, I learn something about me. On the other hand, the fall would be an indicator of some problems that I have with the required skills, so I climb again, paying more attention to what actually caused the fall (mental aspects, strenght, technique, etc.), so I can work on my weaknesses. This way, I have something to learn from each outcome and this is helping my effort. This approach also allowed me to developed a very strong platform for the witness position, that is helping me a lot.

Because I concentrate on each and every section, reaching the top becomes a by-product of my effort: it's just the place where I thread the rope through the anchor and rappel down. At the beginning I considered this way of engaging a route just a regular training task (and not "real climbing"), but I noticed that I feel more motivated and I enjoy climbing more than when I was aiming for the top by all means.

Thank you,
Laurentiu

No-Fall / Yes-Fall Risks

Ouch. Yes, there is no substitute for actually practicing falling. Make sure you practice in small increments as described in earlier lessons. Thanks for sharing your experience.

Arno

No-Fall / Yes-Fall Risks

Hi Arno,

I my last outing I took 20 foot fall on a run out bolted friction route. I assessed it a Yes-Fall even though I had no experience falling that far on a vertical friction route. I had an extra draw and used it at the bolt before run out crux. The fall was clean although I didn't judge the slight angle change below the bolt would make that much difference. I hadn't fallen 20 feet before, may be 15' on clean vertical sport climbs and usually less than 10'. I have never fallen on purpose, it’s always accidental and sudden and as a result I don't think I know how to anticipate the fall and react to it and possible avoid minor injury. From my other falls I noticed that most of the fall force is down and is absorbed by the rope and as a result was not real concerned about falling. I'll admit that the 20' was hard, I didn't notice my scraped elbow, bruised hand, and slight sprained ankle until I lowered down and was on the ground about 10 minutes.

My point is that on my next outings I will take time to practice falling for different DAO on bolts and with gear. I know that part of the reason I fail to climb well within my ability is that my lack to correctly assess the risk, fall risk and doubt about gear holding. Sometimes this has caused me to use the wrong technique making the climb harder and resulted in a fall. The other factor is I fail to anticipate the fall and have zero control over the consequences.

Partners

Hi,

Pregnancy, babies and other committments (of others) have left me without a really dependable partner.

I read the Rock Warrior Way at the end of last season and would be very interested in developing relationships with some like minded people, who in addition to getting in some great climbing, were looking to work their way through some of the exercises as well.

I live in the Albany area, do most of my climbing at the Gunks, but the DAKS are an easy drive for me as well. Looking to do some exploring up there this year.

email at mgs29035@verizon.net.

9-Arousal

Hi Arno,

Actualy, this is what I mean by "keep breathing while falling". When I prepare for a move I breathe-in when I concentrate on the next hold and I exhale when I reach for it. A fall is no far from it, in terms of preparation, so I breathe-in when I look down to the landing area and I exhale while getting there.

And BTW, Mr. Bush was welcomed very well on this second visit to Romania, but he's got somehow "lost in the stream" because the reason of his visit was a NATO summit with a lot of presidents and prime-ministers from all over the world. However, Mr. Bush and our president discussed the issue of the visas required for romanians who want to visit US, so, maybe in the next years I'll stand a chance to climb some of your great crack-routes that I keep seeing in the climbing movies...

Regards,

Laurentiu

10-Commitment

Introduction
“Until one is committed there is always hesitancy, a chance to draw back, always ineffectiveness." So begins a frequently quoted passage from W.H. Murray's book Scottish Himalayan Expedition. Commitment can carry you through difficult climbs, while lack of it can shut you down. What allows some climbers to tap into this resource and others not? Commitment isn't something that some climbers have and others don’t. Rather, those climbers who are able to commit apply their attention differently. There’s a time to prepare and a time to act. Commitment comes into the mix when you transition from preparing to acting -- from thinking to doing. Great things transpire here, but the quality of your commitment will depend on how you negotiate this transition.
-
Specific Topic of Discussion
Commitment is such an important topic that I would like to take two weekly lessons to give more attention and time to it. In this lesson I would like you to collect information you become aware of. In the next one we'll dig into commitment a bit more formally.
-
Exercise
You need to get on a challenging climb with the intention of on-sighting or redpointing in order to see how committed you are. Collect information (see below) prior to and when you get on such climbs:
-
First--Outcomes
How many outcomes to you allow yourself. Some possible outcomes could be: falling, downclimbing, grabbing pro, hanging on pro, getting to the top, etc.
-
Second--Expectations
What are your expectations prior to getting on the climb?
What are your expectations while on the climb (if different than prior to climbing)?
How do these expectations affect your effort? Do they help or hinder? Why?
-
Third--Motivation
How does reaching the top affect your motivation?
How does falling (and not reaching the top) affect your motivation?
-
Arno

9-Arousal

Hi Laur,
Thanks for your detailed description. Next time you practice falling include this along with what you are already doing:
Do a long exhale throughout the fall. Doing this will help keep you in process, which simply means your attention will be more present for each wonderful moment of the fall.
Arno

9-Arousal

Hello Laurel,
Yes, you are smiling at your tendency to complain. Nice. Concerning the bouldering and rests...You are correct. Most boulder problems consist of one effort. But most also contain subtle rests even if it is just a second. Main thing is rest if you can but if you are buring gas, then commit forward.
Arno

9-Arousal

Hi Carl, your comment: It seems when ever I get in over my head, I start doubting, which leads to a don't care type of carelessness and I lose form or be come indecisive or get pumped and fall.
-
Well...let's see about a few things.
First, sounds like you are getting in over your head, meaning, you are not taking appropriate risks. Also assess how experienced you are in falling. Read through the earlier lessons to get a better understanding of taking appropriate risk and gaining falling experience. You can post there and I'll reply there also.
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Second, I think the "don't care" head is a coping behavior for your ego. It wants to climb the route but when you get more tired your ego sees less chance of attaining that goal. So, it begins to devalue the goal so it won't feel bad. Basically it justifies what is happening by devaluing the goal. Your attention therefore is distracted from the climbing to that ego voice.
-
What to do?
1. Make sure you take appropriate risks and gain falling experience as described in earlier lessons.
2. When you are in yes-fall situations and doubting, know that the doubts are originating from your ego. Seeing them as such will help you put some distance between them and your observation of them. This will allow you to be more objective.
3. Do your best to see those doubts as a distraction. Delay reacting to them. Then, redirect your attention by doing the arousal heightening described in this lesson. Also get another check on the fall consequence from where you are. You may need to down climb if the fall is too far outside your falling experience.
-
Remember, your main goal is not getting to the top but developing the ability to process stress in appropriate risk situations. Doing this will grow your self awareness; your growth. That's your goal. Do that and your'll send the route in due time.
Post comments concerning the "what to do?" items in this thread.
Arno

9-Arousal

Hi Arno,

When I red your article on rc.com (Learning How to Learn) I realized that I might tense my body and hold my breath when falling. So, today, because the weather forecast was predicting some rain in the afternoon and I couldn't climb the multipitch route that I wanted to, I took it as a good opportunity to practice falling for half a day.

I drove 50 miles to a limestone crag with plenty sport routes and because the falls on less than vertical routes looked scarry to me, I chose such a route (that I had climbed before and where I knew it's safe to take falls) and prepared for climbing it. I also discussed the plan with my belayer and warned her that I will take unexpected falls.

I set the intention to take falls at different distances from the bolts while concentrating on keeping my body relaxed and breathing on the way down and I also set the intention to apply the BERP procedure at every clip'n'rest stances (as I thought it might help diminishing my fear for this kind of falls)
Than I did my start-up ritual (as I said I always do): deep breaths, relax, face-shaking, chalk, put-a-smile-on-your-face-Laur and go!

I climbed over five bolts (taking deep breaths, relaxing and checking my posture at each and every of them) then climbed up three or four moves and stepped back. Well, unlike other occasions when I was practicing such falls, this time my mind didn't show up with it's usual speach "you're gonna hurt yourself !"

I was in that "state of heightened awareness", concentrating on the moves, on my breath, on my intention to learn how to fall, and there was no room for my mind's negative talk. I fell in perfect comfort and I was able to relax and to keep breathing while falling (this was the point, as I have no problem with looking down and keeping my arms out, without grabbing the rope).

I took 10-12 falls (in small increments) from different heights, feeling comfortable, relaxed and breathing calmly. My hands and feet were absorbing the impact like springs, so there was no way to hurt myself in the fall, as I was afraid. After every fall, I was planning the next one (I will reach for that sloper to the left - If I make it, it will be a nice move, if I don't, it will be a nice fall), than I was running again the BERP procedure (upgraded with a smile) and it made wonders.

All in one, this was a great experience that opened me the way to climb all those routes that I was dreaming about but I was avoiding to climb because of that fear of falling on near vertical walls.

Thank you,

Laurentiu

9-Arousal

I'm back in the rainy Northwest, so I've been climbing indoors this week. It might be dry in our little patch of desert this Sunday so I might be able to get outside.

One thing I noticed is that on some bouldering routes there aren't any rest stances until the top. And that I can waste a lot of energy trying to rest in a difficult spot. But one rest spot is actually at the top of the route before turning around and downclimbing -- stopping to refocus and plan the downclimb just like the "real" climb saves a lot of stress and falling :)

One of my favorite bits of interference on indoor routes is "this is an awkward reachy move -- the guy who set this route must be 6 feet tall -- I'm going to get tired of jumping to all of these holds". This week I found that smiling helps me accept that the route is what it is and that I can enjoy it for what it is. So instead of complaining to myself I can just enjoy the ridiculousness of ignoring a whole bunch of perfectly good holds and scrambling up some aging wall texture because of the color of some tape that someone stuck up there...

9-Arousal

Arno,

Last week I decided to lead a route that is two point over my normal lead. I had climbed it successfully before on top rope, it goes up a crack and then on to a clean face with two bolts. I easily negotiated the crack placing 3 cams and at the top an extra before moving out onto the face. From the top of the crack to the first bolt I would fall about 3/4 to the ground. I made the first bolt easy and confidently up to the second. Past the second bolt is the crux where it is steeper and little to nothing except friction. I accepted that the fall was long but fairly clean. Here is where my confidence failed me and usually I have this feeling whenever I fall. I am still climbing strong but I have this doubt telling me that I am going to fall and feel I give into it and say to myself "I don't care". I made a good high step with my right and reached for a small seam to balance when I think I lifted my heals and my foot slipped. I was four feet from the top and fell about 20'. I would have tried again except I hit the slope between bolts and slightly turned my ankle. It seems when ever I get in over my head, I start doubting, which leads to a don't care type of carelessness and I lose form or be come indecisive or get pumped and fall.

9-Arousal

Hi Laur,
Thank you for your post. Yes, many times the joy of climbing (love-based motivation) is enough to be in the heightened state of arousal. Many climbers, however, are too end-result motivated to have the love of climbing keep them present. I feel I am almost always approaching my climbs with love-based motivation. But, when I am on something really challenging it helps me be present by going through this arousal process. Exerting effort is strenuous and stressful and we tend to resist anything that is like that. Heightening my presence help prepare me and keep me on the task.
-
By the way, how is Romania welcoming our Mr. Bush during his visit there this week?
Arno

9-Arousal

Hi Arno,

I skipped the last lesson, but for a strong reason: usually the "homework" of your lessons is: "Go to a route that will challenge you and...". Well, I only have time to go climbing in week-ends, but the topics are published on Monday, just after my weekly climbing experience, but way before the next one. (And last week it was raining...)

But for this very lesson I have fresh memories. On Sunday, I discovered some new sport routes at one of my favourites limestone crags. I knew nothing about them, but one of the routes was so appealling that I just HAD to climb it: an overhanging start on two and three finger jugs, that a long vertical face up to the top.
I prepared for the route as I usually do (visualization, general risk assessement,retreat plan, etc.). Then, I did my start-up ritual: deep breaths, relax, face-shaking, chalk, put-a-smile-on-your-face-Laur and go! (I started doing this after I first red your book and now I do it every time when I start climbing). Well, nothing special so far.

The interesting part is what happened to my level of arousal at every decision point and in-between. As I was discovering the route, I was amazed of how beautifull and technical the moves were, the past ones and the next to come as well, and I kept some kind of a Budha smile on my face all the way up to the top.
Back on the ground, I was still smiling the same way and my belayer said: "Hey Laur, you shouldn't be THAT proud for onsighting a route". I answered "You don't get it... and I can't explain. Climb that route and you'll understand"
When I lowered him down from the top he had a large smile on his face and he said "Yeah, you were right, now I get it... Nice route !"

So, after a small bump with my start-up ritual, the heightened state of arousal came naturally, only by being present in the moment and enjoying the rock and the climbing moves, but I didn't need to think about it at every decision point. The beauty of the route triggerred it by itself.

Laur

9-Arousal

Introduction
In previous lessons we went into preparation and decision-making. Now comes the time for action...to climb. It is critical to be absolutely present for the upcoming challenge. Being in a state of heightened awareness is important.
-
Specific Topic of Discussion
Before you launch into difficult, strenuous climbing it is helpful to be in a state of heightened awareness, which simply means your attention is heightened for what is about to take place. You achieve this state of arousal by what you do with your body. Doing this will also diminish your mind's interference. Your attention will be heightened (allowing you to be more present) by breathing deeply, having a soft-eyes focus, relaxing, and maintaining proper posture. Here is an easy way to remember this: BERP.
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B--Breathe deeply
E--soft Eyes (peripheral focus)
R--Relaxed down onto your legs/feet
P--proper Posture with shoulders rolled back and down slightly
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You can accomplish this state by doing a couple strong exhales, shaking your face (and blinking your eyes), relaxing down, rolling shoulders back. It all happens together. You shake your face, shoulders back, relax down as you exhale strongly. Doing this heightens your attention in the moment and puts it into the body, which is what is getting ready to do the upcoming climbing. This heightened state of arousal is cathartic in a way, which is a signal to me of the importance of my upcoming effort.
-
Exercise
Go to a route that will challenge you. Break the climb into decision points. Go through this process of heightening your arousal state at each of these decision points. Please report back your experience.
-
Arno

8-Decisiveness

Hi Laurel,
Yes, a climber learning how to fall and a belayer learning how to give a cushioned catch is learned by doing it. Beforehand we have all sorts of assumptions of what we should do. For instance, a belayer giving in to the pull to end up about 5 feet off the ground is counter intuitive. We tend to think we keep the faller safe by tying ourselves down and retracting. You also bring up an important point about weight differences. Yes, tie yourself down but loosely so you can be pulled up that 5 feet but no more than that.
Arno

8-Decisiveness

Hi Adam,
Thanks for joining us. The very fact that she was voicing concerns means the risk you all were taking as a team was too far beyond her skill and experience level. Climbing is a team event in this way. We develop a trust relationship between climber and belayer that needs to be grounded in actual experience and conscious risk assessment and not in assumptions. You say it was all yes-fall zones. I get the feeling you have a different understanding of this than how I've presented it. Yes-fall zones are those situations where you as a climber have experience taking such falls AND your belayer has experience catching such falls. Not zones where the wall is overhanging and you won't hit anything if you fall. Perhaps both climber and belayer do have some experience but if there is too much resistance from one or the other then more experience is needed.
-
Your comment: "I wonder if I were more comfortable and committed to the process, even when it involves falling, then would she be more accepting of the possibility of catching a fall?"
I don't think so. Confidence comes from experiencing actual situations; situations that were stressful that are now comfortable. You can act confident and committed to the process but that facade will reveal itself when you are pumped and facing a fall. You will manifest the exact level of commitment to the process you possess and so will she.
Arno

8-Decisiveness

Thanks for the posts everyone.
Ari: I do believe that the convincing of Scott's mind interfered with his risk assessment process. His attention shifted from objective assessment (DAO and making a decision that stretches him a bit but not too far) to his fears of what might happen. When this happens the dialogue in your mind is intensified creating two opposing desires, neither of which are being fulfilled or acted upon. Those two desires are desire to commit and learn and desire to retreat and be comfortable/safe. I think you can visualize this as simple hesitation until the discomfort of being there overpowers your desire to learn.
-
Strategies? Always come back to this:
1. what is my intention right now? for scott it was to do an objective risk assessment (DAO and POLR), identify if it is a no-fall or yes-fall zone, and weigh it against his past experience level.
2. notice when your mind distracts attention away from your intention. For Scott, his attention was going to fears of not being able to do it, the chicken heads breaking off, etc.
3. D&D: Delay reacting to the thoughts and Dissociate (talk to yourself) to Redirect attention to your intention.
-
Arno

8-Decisiveness

Scott, as a relatively small person, I might be able to explain what it's like to be a nervous belayer. It can be stressful for small people to belay large people. And you definitely don't want to push your limits when you're responsible for someone else's life. In one climbing class I took, they had us belay a 200lb stack of weight plates that "fell" with a lot of slack out. I thought that was a good way to get some more confidence that I could actually catch a big fall. The other thing is that I'm more likely to launched off the ground when belaying a larger person. Sometimes it's not a big deal, the leader just slips another 6 inches or so. But often I anchor myself in to the ground so I (and the leader) don't have to worry about it, especially when they're new/nervous, or if it would be inconvenient to stand close to the wall (and always on multipitch of course). On overhanging sport routes it can be possible to catch an impressive looking amount of air when taking safe falls on lead. If she doesn't lead (or if she personally doesn't like swinging around like that), she might think she's doing something wrong when you do.

8-Decisiveness

Thanks for the honesty in your post, Scott. I enjoyed reading your story.

My latest trip was to Red River Gorge. Most of my time was spent with friends and other people who were climbing for the first time. I was often trying to give them a good experience so I had limited opportunities to challenge my own ability. During one of those times I discovered a 'dragon' I had been ignorant of before.

See, my wife is my climbing partner. She belays and I lead. When it was just the two of us at the crag, I decided I wanted to attempt something at my limit. Although the falls are almost always safe on overhanging terrain, we are both a little intimidated by steeper routes; and my wife more so than I. Because I saw this hesitation in me, I wanted to confront my discomfort and climb something steep and challenging. As I was preparing to ascend, my wife began voicing her reservations about the climb. The falls were all yes-zones, the risks were appropriate, but her concerns were irrational. Of course part of her attitude was based on the fact that she wasn't feeling completely well physically.

I'm trying to stay relevant to the topic at hand. I realize that this may be more of a relationship issue than a climbing issue. But here's what I noticed. When I sense her discomfort, I get really nervous myself. When I'm anxious and distracted, of course I climb terribly. She has caught falls before, but for some reason lead falls just unnearve her. And I can't help but be effected by her attitude. I am much more reserved when I'm climbing with her. But I wonder if I were more comfortable and committed to the process, even when it involves falling, then would she be more accepting of the possibility of catching a fall? Maybe more confidence from me would spark more confidence for her.

-Adam

8-Decisiveness

Scott brings up an excellent point with his example. It seems to me that the trouble arose from uncertainty. That is, Scott didn't know whether the terrain ahead would be something he was capable of dealing with mentally and phsyically, so he backed off. I can certainly relate, having been in similar situations many times. It obviously wasn't a "bad" decision to back off (after all, everyone backs off sometimes). I think the most interesting part of the story is when you describe how you convinced yourself that you needed to back off. Do you feel that this "convincing" interfered with your ability to make a sober, calculated decision about whether to go for it or not? I think this sort of second-guessing can undermine decisiveness in both directions (i.e., both in backing off or going forward). I would be interested to hear comments on strategies to deal with these problems.

Cheers,

Ari

8-Decisiveness

Hi Scott,
Thanks for your post. There are things you can do to stay committed once engaged, but that is the subject of another lesson yet to come. I outlined a few points for making decisions more power (see below). Let's look at your situation to see what happened...
-
1. Understanding your tendency: attention gets distracted by situations that will impact you that you do not have experience with. So, get falling experience.
As you mentioned, you have falling practice on bolts but not gear so you don't fully trust it yet. Make sure you have plenty of gear in When you do falling practice on gear.
-
2. No-fall or yes-fall:
Yes, the DAO doesn't work when you are in the middle of the stressful climbing. Do it when at your pro/rest. Now, the situation may seem like a no-fall zone but... it is probably a yes-fall zone while you are climbing up from your pro. In other words, falls will be shorter as you leave your pro but get longer as you continue higher. So, you can engage initially as if in a yes-fall zone where you make moves closer to your perceived limit. Then as you get into no-fall territory you can assess your pump versus distance to next pro/rest and make another decision.
-
3. Only two outcomes:
As pointed out above... the two outcomes are different when you are in the yes-fall zone and when you transition into a no-fall zone.
-
4. Appropriate risk:
How much is engaging the yes-fall and no-fall zones going to stretch you? Seems like a lot since there was so much resistance by you. Need to get that falling practice.
-
5. Intention: There are two parts to intention--mind and body.
*Yes-fall zone section: mind's intention is to climb to a point where a fall is still within your experience with falling. body's intention is to exert effort forward.
*No-fall zone section: mind's intention is the next pro/rest. body's intention is to exert effort forward/backward. Meaning, you may need to downclimb.
-
Arno

8-Decisiveness

Hi Arno,

I want to write about an experience this weekend in which I learned a great deal although it did not come out like I expected.

This climb was recently put up. It is in Cochise Stronghold---a leaning finger crack to face climbing. My goal was to engage, however I realize now that I did not have a plan.

My partner and I bouldered up choss to belay from a ledge. No fall zone. I climbed a slab to a bolt, clipped it and moved up into easy face/crack climbing. Yes, fall zone. I placed a small bomber nut near the bottom of a leaning crack. Yes, fall zone. I climb up some more and placed another small bomber nut. Yes, fall zone. The crack leans and overhangs a smooth face. I climb up and place a small cam. Yes, fall zone. I climb further up the crack. It overhangs and leans to the left such that I cannot place another piece. It feels powerful and delicate.

I did not expect to be unable to place anymore pro. The crack leans over a smooth face without foot holds. I struggle with trying to place pro. I start to talk to myself. Wow, this is hard! The route leaves the crack here and heads up onto a steep slabby face. I climb back down, hang and place a second small cam. No real decision making.

Hanging and thinking: I know I am supposed to leave the crack and then climb up a bit on the face and tie off a rounded chicken head. I am not really sure the head has a lip on it sufficient to tie off. The line is steep, the move is much harder than any so far on the route. Then excuses come: the person who put up this route is a very good slab climber who sandbags. He has boogered me before. I wonder how far he ran it out.

I am talking to myself: I cannot see if I can tie off that chicken head. The climbing is getting hard. If I move up and tie off that head I cannot see any more protection above. It will be more tied off heads. I am imagining a long run out off a sling on a chicken head. If I stand on top of that chicken head I am not sure I can down climb back to my piece. I worry about my last piece. What if I get on top of that head and there is no more pro up higher? How far am I going to have to run it?

More excuses: a few weeks earlier I broke off what I thought was a good head on this same new crag, sailed by a ledge and dinged up my ankle. I wonder if the head is solid. I do not know how far I am going to have to run it to get another piece after the chicken head.

I hang on my pro and convince myself not to try. I am climbing with a very, very good climber. I know he can do it. Despite his encouragement to go back up and touch the head, I have him lower me.

My friend goes up. After a couple of strenuous moves he has one hand on the head. Hanging by one hand, he rigs slings to my last cam and to the head so that there is tension on the sling over the head. This interesting arrangement keeps the sling tightly in place. He does a high step and rocks up onto the head. A delicate move reveals another head and a run on much easy ground to three bolts and anchors.

Here are some of the things I learned that may or may not be relevant to this lesson:

1.) While I have been practicing falls on bolts, I have not been practicing falls on gear.

2.) The desire to engage is not the same forming a plan. From the belay I should have formed a plan as to that part of the route I could see.

3.) The uncomfortableness of climbing up and discovering I could not place pro in the leaning crack started negative self talk, bad imaging, stalling out and hanging. I needed to immediately climb back down to my rest stance and re-evaluate. At that stance I needed to do a yes/no DAO analysis. Had I done so I would have realized that it was a safe fall from the top of the chicken head. DAO decisions during stress don’t work.

On toprope I discovered, if I made the moves up to the chicken head, then I would have seen another chicken head which I could have tied off. A fall from the second chicken head onto the lower head would probably have been safe, too. I would have been nervous about the run after that, but it was on easier ground. The technical moves were within my physical climbing ability. While I made the decision to back off more or less cleanly, I still was in the backyard eating worms for another climb or two.

Working on it here, boss.

Scott

8-Decisiveness

test to see if i can post. mr

8-Decisiveness

I'm posting Scott's message (below) to me here to see if i can post. So here goes... Arno

--------------------------

Hi Arno,

The web site is not allowing us to post.

Thanks!

Scott

8-Decisiveness

Introduction
Once you've gone through your risk assessment and checked your motivation, it is time to be decisive...to make a decision. No action can begin until a decision is made. This decision transitions you from planning to acting...from being stopped and thinking to moving and doing. How well you make this transition and decision will determine how well you will act and climb.
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Specific Topic of Discussion
Most climbers begin climbing a route hoping they don't fall or that they will be able to do it. This is a desperate attempt by their mind to get what it wants. It has no plan; it only has its desire for comfort (being comfortable for having reached the top without the stress of falling or "failing").
-
Consider this to make your decision more power.
1. Understanding your tendency: You need to understand why you stop and hesitate when you get tired and pumped. Essentially, your attention gets distracted to your fear of the fall because you are unsure of what will happen. To keep attention focused forward on climbing--to not stop and hesitate--you need to address why your attention gets distracted. Your attention gets distracted by situations that will impact you that you do not have experience with. If you have no experience with such falls your attention will be distracted. So, get falling experience.
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2. No-fall or yes-fall: You need to know if you are facing a no-fall or yes-fall zone. This is critical because you weigh it differently and engage differently. No-fall means you shouldn't push past your ability and take a fall. Yes-fall means you do want to push past your mind's resistance and stay committed to your effort and either fall or make it through.
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3. Only two outcomes: You need to identify the two outcomes of your effort and accept them.
For yes-fall zones you fall or make it, so you accept both because you feel you can respond to both based on past experience with such falls.
For no-fall zones you down-climb if you get too pumped or climb through, so you accept both because you feel you can respond to both based on past experience of down-climbing and not pushing past your perceived limit.
Seeing only two (2) outcomes and accepting them eliminates distractions and focuses your effort. You don't give yourself other options in case it gets too strenuous.
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4. Appropriate risk: Your decision needs to be grounded in valuing learning. Meaning, if you engage you will learn and not hurt yourself. To accomplish this you must "bite off" a little stress and unknown but not too much. For yes-fall zones, the fall consequence is equal to or a little larger than falls you've taken. For no-fall zones, the grade and type of climb is similar to or a little larger than other climbs you've done like this.
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5. Intention: There are two parts to intention--mind and body. Your mind sets the intention for the end result--the next rest. You need to know where you are heading and where you want to arrive. To arrive there, however, requires you to engage your body. Your body will be in process as it climbs toward realizing the mind's intention. So its intention must be on the process, on what it will do. And this intention is always...exerting effort forward into the climbing process.
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Exercise
Go to a route that will challenge you with the mind's intention of redpointing or on-sighting it. Set your body's intention on exerting effort. Ground your decision in what I've outlined above. Observe how this is different or similar to how you usually make decisions. Please report back your experience.
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Arno

7-Motivation

Hi Laurel Fan,
Thanks for posting. Let me put my comments in the context of this lesson: motivation. The desires for the short term easy way originates from your mind's desire for comfort. Your mind is motivated by seeking comfort. But there is that other part of you that is pure awareness that wants to grow, be challenged, and learn. As you say: "Almost like I'm having an argument with the desire leading me the wrong way."
When you go through your risk assessment at the base of a climb or at rest stances, you need to find the easiest way up the route to its end, or up to the next pro for the section you are facing. There is nothing wrong with looking for the easiest way. The mistakes your mind makes is that it looks only at the short range easy instead of to the next rest stance. That short range easy increases fall consequences for the long range (getting to the next pro/rest), like climbing off route and subjecting yourself to a pendulum fall.
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When this happens simply make sure you do your risk assessment as I've mentioned (to the next rest/pro). Then look for how to solve the problem for that section. This will focus your attention on what learning you need to do to solve that problem. And, therefore you are tapped into motivation grounded in learning, not immediate comfort.
Arno

7-Motivation

Hello Verticon (Laur),
Thank you for your post. A tangible example as you wrote about is helpful for everyone to apply this process. Remember the "finding little ways to engage" method for moving through your mind's desire for comfort.
Arno

7-Motivation

When I look at climbs I've done in the past, one of my problems is that I get often get sucked in to the locally "easier" way, even if it's off route or if I'm just going to get myself into trouble later. There could be lots of desires I'm getting tangled up in there, I'm not really sure. Desire for the comfort of the "easy" route, not questioning my first decision, stubborn disobeying of the route description, etc. And then the next time up I have to tell myself "step off the ledge", "get in the crack", etc. Almost like I'm having an argument with the desire leading me the wrong way.

But I think when I do manage to look at a "hard" move and see how it must be done (somehow that seems slightly different to me than "how I must do it"?), a lot of the time it just gets done.

7-Motivation

Hi Arno,

I came to the RWW forum to "report back" the result of my plan as you asked me, and to thank you again for your wonderful advice.

Yesterday I went climbing at a limestone cliff in Bulgaria. After a couple of easy 5.10 warm-up routes I was looking around for a more challanging and attractive route, and there it was: a beautiful line going straight up a vertical face of compact limestone. I've never climbed that route before and I knew nothig about it (it might be a new one, as it's not even in the climbing guide for that cliff).

As I was looking at it, my mind started the usual speech: "It's too difficult for me, there are very few visible holds and some bolts are at more than 10 ft apart, I'd rather look for an easier route". And than I remembered your advice, but in a very interesting context: "my old mental problem again...", "this route is a good challange to stop my mind's perception getting in the way", "it's a very good opportunity to learn how to find little ways to engage".

So, I took a closer look at the route:
- It's vertical with no obstacles to hit in a fall, and the bolts are placed so that they could be clipped from good stances.
- there are two presumable good rest stances which divide the route in three distinct parts and they will give me good decision points for the next section.
- if I don't make it to the top chain, the bolts are the resin cemented type, with an eye large enough to pass the rope through and rappel down.

So, I took the decision to check by myself how difficult the route was, instead of letting my mind decide for me that it was a nut too hard to crack. I looked for possibilities to climb and I made a plan for the first section of the route, up to the first rest stance. "From there, I'll have a better view on the next section and I'll make a decision based on objective facts, not on impressions from the ground".
I reminded myself to keep breathing, to concentrate on technique and to always keep myself in present while climbing. I set the intention to give my best effort to the climb and that if I'll fall, this will happen while doing the moves, not by giving up. I also arranged with my belayer to spot me until I'll clip the first bolt (15 ft from the ground).

The climb though the first section went as planned: above the first bolt it was a stenuous but beautiful move from a sharp and crimpy side pull to a distant two finger pocket, with smearing feet, than a long reach to a high reverse pull that I used to climb over a bulge. On top of it it was the first rest stance that I had seen from the ground.

There, a wonderful thing happened: I took the rest while looking for possibilities to climb the next section, I made the plan and I engaged the climb WITHOUT my mind telling me again that "the route is too difficult for me", althought this section looked like being the crux: some long moves that seemed to be close to my limit, between shallow edges and sharp fingertips pockets on a cople of 1/4 inch edges for my feet.

The same thing happened at the second rest stance: no mind-chat anymore, just the usual process: route/fall/climber assessement - decision - intention setting - breaking point - action. I was in love with the route and this was overcoming my old mental habit. I clipped the top anchor with a sense that the route was ending too soon and while I was lowered down I realised that I found the way to brake through my mental plateau, it was working like a charm and this was the way to go from now on.

The funny thing is that I couldn't put a grade on that route. I was so absorbed by the climb that I didn't think about how this one compared with other routes, or how difficult the moves felt. I only could tell how beautiful the route was. In the afternoon, my buddies wanted to climb the route, but none of them managed to pass the second bolt (I guess they were already too tired at the end of a climbing day), so still no grade confirmation...

Thank you again,

Laur

obed

Directions Obed
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From Atlanta or Chattanooga: Take I-75 North to I-40 west. Exit onto US 27 at Harriman, Tennessee.
From Harriman: Follow US 27 North to Wartburg, Tennessee.
From Wartburg: At the intersection of Hwy 62 and 27 there is a traffic light. Stay on 27 North for 3.1 miles. Turn left onto Hwy 62 toward Lancing. After 2 miles you'll go over a bridge. There are railroad tracks below and also the town of Lancing. Continue for 2.3 more miles. Turn left at a sign that reads: Obed Wild and senic River, Lilly Access. This is Ridge Road. After 2.8 miles on this road you'll see Doc Howard road on the left. This road leads to Clear Creek. At the 2.9 mile mark there is a road on the right that leads to Dell’s camping spot. At the 3.2 mile mark you'll cross Lilly Bridge. Continue up the hill to the 3.8 mile mark and turn left into the Lilly Overlook parking.

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If you're coming from Nashville, take I-40 East and exit onto 298 at Crossville, Tennessee. Follow 298 until it deadends into 62, then turn right. Go about two miles and turn right onto Ridge Road. Follow the directions above to the Lilly Bluff overlook parking area.

7-Motivation

Hello Laur,
Correct...a warrior doesn't try. He/she sets an intention to exert effort. When you go through the process of breaking a climb into decision points you cut it up, so to speak, into smaller sections. This will help focus just on the section in front of you.
And yes, you are correct, you don't engage a little just so you can escape if the climbing gets strenuous. You simply use this to get past your mind's resistance. This way you allow the experience of your body climbing to give you feedback about what is possible instead of your mind before you get engaged.
Please report back your experience. Thank you.
Arno

7-Motivation

Hi Arno,

Thank you for this great piece of advice. I'll keep this in mind and I'll practice it on one of my sport climbing projects: I'll wittness the thoughts that my mind creates about the whole route being too hard, than I'll have a little chat with my mind (just to convince myself that I am not my thoughts), than I'll consider the route as being a "chain" of difficulties and I'll deal with one link at a time. This might be the SOLUTION for breaking through this plateau where my "off-the-stress" mental habit took me. An additional healthy attitude would be "I'll make that move when I'll get there, now I will concentrate on the task in hand"
I also need to find a way to avoid the "trying" trap as finding "little" ways to engage seems to be dangerously close to "trying" (I'll only climb a few moves or up to the first pro could also mean I'll TRY to climb some moves) And a warrior never tries, does he ?

Laur

7-Motivation

Hello Ari,
Consider this for the feeling you have when you redpoint or on-sight a route:
Do you celebrate and feel "good" about achieving the end result--the redpoint or on-sight?
...or...
Do you celebrate the learning you had that allowed the redpoint or on-sight to occur? In other words, the ascent is validation of your learning and therefore you celebrate the learning that you had.
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This may seem like just a subtle difference but it isn't. What are you focusing on after the ascent?
1. End result: "I feel great that I was able to climb the route."
2. Process: "I feel great about my ability to apply the learning I've had over the last few month."
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There is a big difference in those two. Always ask: "What is my attention focusing on?" You can still enjoy the ascent but you are enjoying it in a very different way.
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Arno

7-Motivation

Hi Laur,
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Thanks for your comments. Below is my feedback.
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Your comment: "the result of those thoughts is that I give up before starting."
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Here we come to the crux of the matter, which really isn't part of this lesson, but let's discuss it anyway since it came up. We need to relate to our mind in a different way than how we do now. Remember this, our mind doesn't like stress. When we look up at a route, many times our mind will focus on all the stress and "decide" for us not to do it. Do deal with this we must develop an appropriate relationship with our mind.
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Essentially it is this:
1. We notice thoughts our mind creates,
2. we let them go,
3. and we find little ways to engage.
Weld this 1-2-3 sequence into your consciousness.
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Refer to your mind as a separate entity within you that you can use but that you don't have to listen to everything it says. So your mind creates thoughts about the moves being too hard... Simply say, "Ok mind, you may be correct, but let me find little ways to engage." Then, get on the route simply with the intention to climb to the first pro or just to do a few moves.
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What this process does is this: It allows the actual experience to determine what is possible instead of your mind's perception beforehand. Have you ever surprised yourself while climbing, did something you didn't think you could? What occurs is this: Your mind had thoughts about not being able to do a climb, but somehow you engaged anyway and were able to do it. What does this tell you about your mind? It tells you that you cannot fully trust the thoughts your mind creates. The critical element is to find "little" ways to engage. A small engagement creates just a little stress. Your mind can handle a little stress and process it. Our mind thinks in all or nothing. "Can I do it or not?" This creates a lot of stress which makes it difficult to transcend.
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Your comment: "It's not a matter of fear of falling, but a lack of confidence: if I can't imagine myself climbing a route, I will not climb it at all. Is it a lack of motivation? Am I too lazy to accept the effort? Is there a way to boost my self-confidence?"
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Again, the mind thinks in "all or nothing" which creates a lot of perceived stress. Find little ways to engage with the contingency of retreat. Also, self confidence is simply the amount of learning you have. You cannot boost your self confidence. Self confidence is confidence in the self...in the learning the self--you--have created. This grows over time if you truly value the learning process.
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Your comment: "I get some beta watching someone climbing it and afterwards I think 'how stupid I was for not climbing it from the first place, because it was such a great route and I had such a good time climbing it.'"
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Say it this way: "I recognize that my mind created thoughts that kept me from engaging. Next time I will not listen to my mind and rather find little ways to engage."
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Your comment: "There are some routes that I LOVE climbing, over and over again ... I guess I don't learn anything anymore from those routes, but I still feel very motivated to climb them. OK, it's love based motivation, but where's the learning?"
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The learning is in experiencing presence...keeping your attention in the present moment to experience the climb. With more experiences of presence you develop the ability to shift attention from the mind's thinking processes to what your body is actually doing and experiencing in the moment.
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Arno

7-Motivation

Arno,

Yes that makes sense, thank you for clarifying.

Cheers.

7-Motivation

Hi Arno,

As I've already stated when we were talking about planning, "some of my best on-sights were on routes that I felt that I "needed" to climb (some kind of love at first sight). And so did I, without hesitancy, feeling just an immense joy of climbing, a great pleasure of the nearly choreographic moves, althought the routes were way above the "numbers" that I was usually climbing".

It's been some time now since I don't look at the grades anymore. If the route attracts me, I'll climb it. But there are times when I look up to a route, I imagine myself climbing through the moves and suddenly I get the feeling that it will be too hard for me (althought very often it isn't...): "I will not make it to the top", "I'll stuck and struggle at that move and I will not feel the pleasure of climbing smoothly", "I need more training, maybe another time, when I'll be prepared". Sometime it's the grade of the route which simply seems too high for me, althought the route seems to be climbable (from my point of view). And the result of those thoughts is that I give up before starting.

I agree that sometimes it might be my intuition speking words of wisdom, sometimes I could have a bad day, but this is happening way too often. It's not a matter of fear of falling, but a lack of confidence: if I can't imagine myself climbing a route, I will not climb it at all.

Sometimes I push myself to climb that route, because it looks too good to miss it, or because I get some beta watching someone climbing it and and afterwards I think "how stupid I was for not climbing it from the first place, because it was such a great route and I had such a good time climbing it". Some of those routes that I never climbed still hount my thoughts and they are on my check-list for this season.

Well, this problem of mine bothers me a lot. Is it a lack of motivation ? Am I too lazy to accept the effort ? Is there a way to boost my self-confidence ? Should I feel any pleasure if I make it to the top of a route where I "sweat blood" when I climb through thew crux moves ? Because it's not getting to the top that attracts me, but the way I climb through each move.

-----------------------

And speaking about motivation and learning... There are some routes that I LOVE climbing, over and over again and each and every time I feel an intense pleasure climbing them because of the beautiful moves. It's like listening the same tune twenty times because it sounds great.
I guess I don't learn anything anymore from those routes, but I still feel very motivated to climb them. OK, it's love based motivation, but where's the learning ?

Laur

7-Motivation

Hi Ari,
Thanks for your post.
Your comment: "Personally speaking, the thing that most motivates me to climb mentally and physically challenging routes is a love of those beautiful, intense, adventurous moments that can't really happen when you're on a secure toprope. You could call this a love of learning, but I generally call it a love of the experience."
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What you describe is exactly the love-based, process, learning motivation I described. To love the experience is to have your attention fully there, not distracted to some destination. In other words, you cannot love the experience and have your attention somewhere other than the present moment. Similarly, you cannot learn unless attention is in the moment, focused on the actual process. It ALWAYS boils down to what is happening with your attention. Loving the experience focuses attention in the moment which is synonymous with process and learning.
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Your comment: "...is a desire to achieve goals necessarily bad? ...there's another side to goal-based motivation too: the side that makes you enjoy the feeling of attempting and failing to meet your goals just as you also feel good about achieving them."
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OK. I never said one was good and one was bad. Those words, as well as success and failure, are not in the warrior vocabulary (which would be a great lesson by itself). We do need to set end-result goals and also process goals. The point is, as always...what is happening to your attention? If your attention is distracted by the end-result goal then you become less effective. I don't know who enjoys "failing." To enjoy "failing" is love-based, learning motivation because attention is focused on being curious about what actually happened in the process that caused you to "fail" instead of being disappointed or excited about not meeting an end-result goal.
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End-result goals are tests of our learning. So, we set those type goals, like redpointing or on-sighting routes, to test our learning. When we engage, however, our attention needs to be in the process to perform well. Essentially, we are testing our ability to keep our attention in the moment. We aren't testing if we can climb the route. If our attention is distracted by achieving or not achieving the end-result...our effort is compromised and less effective.
Make sense?
Arno

7-Motivation

Hi Arno,

Great post. I'm curious, however, about your argument that all motivation stems either from comfort or from desire for learning. Personally speaking, the thing that most motivates me to climb mentally and physically challenging routes is a love of those beautiful, intense, adventurous moments that can't really happen when you're on a secure toprope. You could call this a love of learning, but I generally call it a love of the experience.

Also, you stress process based motivation as the most significant form of motivation. I agree in general, but is a desire to achieve goals necessarily bad? It is if all you want is the ego boost of having done something "hard." But there's another side to goal-based motivation too: the side that makes you enjoy the feeling of attempting and failing to meet your goals just as you also feel good about achieving them. IMHO this can also be an empowering form of motivation.

Cheers.

7-Motivation

Introduction
We've talked about the risk assessment process mainly concerning gathering information. Now we need to make a decision to engage or not. This decision needs to be grounded in valuing the learning process. Where we draw our motivation can determine how we make that decision. Let's look at motivation in this lesson and then the actual decision making process in the next lesson.
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Specific Topic of Discussion
Motivation can come from many places but when boiled down it comes from basically two sources--desire for comfort or desire for learning. The former is a fear-based, end-result type focus of our attention and what we value. The latter is a love-based, process type focus of our attention and what we value. Fear-based motivation distracts our attention to where we will be comfortable again, like the next rest or top of the route. Love-based motivation focuses our attention on the learning process which occurs in the present moment, on the task at hand.
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Exercise
Let's keep this very interactive and honest. Consider routes you've climbed or desire to accomplish. When you dig deep into your reasons for climbing...what is motivating you to climb? Identify fear-based areas and love-based areas and expound on each.
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Arno

6-Risk Assessment - Planning

Hello Ari,

Thanks for your post. We'll be getting into motivation in the next lesson. That will help us understand how being motivated by impressing others can be limiting. Concerning the fears that come up with various kinds of situations, yes, that can and does occur. We'll get to that in later lessons. Right now I'd like to simply look at and dissect the actual assessment process so we know the elements. This will help us do a thorough assessment unhindered by fears and limiting habits. We'll get into motivation and then the actual decision-making process. And then into some issues concerning the fears that interfere with the actual climbing process.

I'm letting these lessons morph, to a degree, based on what comes up in the lesson so they can flow one to the next a bit cohesively. Thanks, Arno

6-Risk Assessment - Planning

Arno,

I think this is relevant, but if you find it off-topic please let me know and I will delete it.

We're talking about planning stages; decision points, that sort of thing. It might be worth talking not only about how to analyze these situations but also what sort of things might interfere with this planning/decision making process. Let me give a few examples.

Say you want to do a particular route because you are in the presence of person you respect greatly and want to impress them. Obviously this is not a good motivation, but it occurs anyway. Perhaps you would be more likely to take an optimistic view about how good rests will be, your ability to deal with the mental challenge of the climb, etc. These are all aspects of planning the route, and making macro-and micro-decisions. So you might underestimate the climb because you don't want to appear afraid in front of your mentor.

To take another example: there is a particular solo I want to do; the crux has a ton of exposure. Now rationally I know that the consequences are similar whether the crux is 80 feet off the deck, or 300 feet. Yet my irrational fears of exposure come up. Might this interfere with my planning process? Might I underestimate how good rests will be, or my ability to judge where decision points and such will be because I am afraid? Might this interfere with my ability to relax and have a positive learning experience?

Cheers.

6-Risk Assessment - Planning

Hi Scott,

Some of your example is a bit off topic but that's ok.
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"MARCO DECISION POINT: I am at the beginning of an ice fall. I look up. Yes, I think I can climb that without falling. I identify where the climb ends and how I will belay when I get there."
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yes, sounds like you are resting at these decision points and assessing. Whether it is a Macro, Mini, or Micro...the important thing to remember is you are stopped and not climbing.
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"DOA analysis"
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Not DOA. That sounds like Dead On Arrival. It is DAO (distance, angle, obstacles) sounding like the TAO.
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"I drilled four or five screws unnecessarily."
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Sounds like the learning process for knowing quality ice. I wouldn't use "unnecessarily."
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"It was amazing to me that on top rope I saw so many more possibilities that I did not see when I talked fear."
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This is the typical challenge we all face and where the main learning process occurs. Developing the abiility to redirect attention from fear talk to assessing is what makes us more effective and deliberate. So, keep working on this. If cannot redirect attention to assessing then the risk is probably too big. When you do redirect then make sure you go through the risk and DAO assessment so that when you do commit to climbing you are taking an appropriate risk.
Yes-fall: you have experience with such falls and should be safe if you fall.
No-fall (like your ice example): you have the experience and strength to climb and not fall.
Thanks Scott, Arno

6-Risk Assessment - Planning

Hi Laur,

Thank you for the explanation. I asked because how we set our intentions and how we make our decisions is full of subtleties. We'll be getting into that in later lessons. And yes, motivation is important. It will be the topic in the next lesson or the one after.

Arno

6-Risk Assessment - Planning

Hi Arno,

Is this what you had in mind?

MARCO DECISION POINT: I am at the beginning of an ice fall. I look up. Yes, I think I can climb that without falling. I identify where the climb ends and how I will belay when I get there—in Ouray it is required to leave an anchor at the top of a climb to alert others some one is below leading. I identify the path of least resistance. I identify the climbing zones and the protection zones. If I fall low, I will hit the deep snow piled at the base of the climb. About 20-30 feet up I think I can rest and place a screw;. another screw right before the bulge; another before topping out. How many screws—take a few extra? Are there tie offs? I rack up placing screws on my harness according to the length I think I will use and cast off.

MINI DECISION POINT: I climb up to where there is a rest, the angle is less steep and place a good screw. Where should my next screw go? I identify where I think I want the next screw and a be able to rest. I forgot to do a DOA analysis.

MICRO DECISION POINT: I feel fear talk. I another would like a screw. My estimate from the bottom was too bold. I see where I might scrum a rest and place another screw a few feet up.

MINI DECISION POINT: Breathing, continuous climbing, rest stance and place a screw. I identify where I want the next screw. DOA analysis: A fall near this screw and I will not get seriously hurt. The next rest stance is close. I will place another screw there.

MINI DECISION POINT: I climb up to the next rest stance. It is not as good as I thought. Improve the stance by kicking out some ice. I get one foot flat Frenchie and place a screw. Ice is no good. Screw goes in well and then hits air. Take it out. I try another placement—same thing. Another placement—this placement is unconsolidated chossy ice. Take it out. A couple more attempts with no good ice found. I start fear talk.

Breath, relax on the stance, improve it a little more, overdrive my tools. What now? I can probably make it to the top of the climb, but I need to get over a bulge and the next 10-20 feet after the budge is snow covered and may not have good ice underneath. A fall would be bad. Fear, breath relax, plenty of juice, what now? Change position, over drive my tools, improve my stance and search a little more for a good screw. I get a good screw. Relax, breath, focus on the climbing: top out.

I re-climbed this route on top rope. I noticed that when things turned out different from what I expected, I talked fear to myself and tended toward tunnel vision. I wanted to go with my plan. I drilled more bad screws than was necessary. My fear talk interfered with my ability to simply relax, focus and find a good placement. I drilled four or five screws unnecessarily.

I realized that on top roping this route I could have down climbed to good ice. I could have climbed up a little bit more and taken a less restful stance and have gotten to better ice. It was amazing to me that on top rope I saw so many more possibilities that I did not see when I talked fear . The climb also looked shockingly easier when I was not leading.

Scott

6-Risk Assessment - Planning

Hi Arno,

For the "fixed" plan, it was between quotes just to emphasize that it's not that fixed after all. (I've been climbing for 27 years, but sometimes I still misjudge the moves and I need to adjust my initial plan). But when I start acting upon that plan I take full responsibility for it.

For the decision/intention part, I mixed up the terms, sorry. (I'm always in great rush when posting on this forum, in order to complete my message before the server will log me out. Next time I'll write the message and copy/paste it here)

The "erata" is: < a "fixed" plan that will work for the next few moves, on which I will rely for setting the decision to engage into climbing that section (if this will be the case) and than the intention to commit to that action>

I reffer to "decision" as to the process of choosing one of the two alternatives: to climb or to back-off. Than, I direct my attention into that choice as I "clear away" the hesitancy from my will to fully commit : I set the intention.

The roots of that hesitancy are some other story... Sometimes, althought the objective facts show that I could deal with the climb and there's no danger in taking a fall, there's still something holding me back. As I wrote in another post, it might be the Ego or it might be my intuition.

I've noticed that it's all about my motivation: some of my best on-sights were on routes that I felt that I "needed" to climb (some kind of love at first sight). And so did I, without hesitancy, feeling just an immense joy of climbing, a great pleasure of the nearly choreographic moves, althought the routes were way above the "numbers" that I was usually climbing. On the other hand, some of my failures were on routes that I climbed for some other reasons than pure pleasure: "the others climbed it too", "this is the last route left unclimbed on this cliff", and so on. I still climbed some of those routes, but I consider those climbs to be failures because I felt like struggling my way to the top.

Laur

6-Risk Assessment - Planning

Laur,

Your comments:

Actually, there are two different plans here:
- a "fixed" one that will work for the next few moves, on which I will rely for setting the intention and than (if this will be the case) the decision to engage into climbing that section
- a flexible plan which is more of an analysis of the possibilities for the whole route or for the section till the next macro decision stance (something like "IF situation <a> occures THAN solution <1> or <2> might apply) so I will be prepared for the mini and micro decisions to come.

OK. So you have more of a fixed plan for what you can see (next few moves) and a flexible plan (possibilities) for what you cannot completely see. I think this is a nice balance and can work well. That fixed plan can also help to downclimb back to your rest if needed. Many times the actual moves will end up being different than you envision from your stance. So, even a fixed plan needs to be a bit flexible.

I'm curious to your comment about intention and decision as being part of the fixed plan. You comment: "setting the intention and the decision to engage." Tell us what that intention would be. What is your intention? And, your decision to engage...how are you engaging? In other words, are you deciding to engage and if things don't work out you can disengage? Think about no-fall and yes-fall situations and how intention and decision might apply.

Arno

6-Risk Assessment - Planning

Hi Laur,

Your comment: "There's an interesting aspect of planning which relates to bolting sport climbing routes."

Many FA climbers do not go through the thorough process that you described. Rather they focus on their abilities and put up the route that way. I think this is ok for runout trad. In those situations we want a route that shows the skill of the FA climber. On sport climbs, however, it needs to be bolted for folks beginning to climb that grade with the knowledge that those folks will be falling sometimes. Some 5.12 climbers put up routes graded 5.10 and easier with the mentality "it's only 5.10...I won't fall on something this easy." And, then spread the bolts out too far. This was particularly true in the 1980s.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

Arno